Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Hello everybody

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    5

    Hello everybody

    Hi all. I am a 35 year old male, and my story started in the last 2-3 years. I have always been small, little facial hair, higher pitched voice, etc. I train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu 5-6 days a week and coach little kids 3 days a week. Over the last 2-3 years, I noticed a decrease in my sex drive, a sharp decrease in my enjoyment in everything except BJJ and family time, no motivation at work, depression, and some fat gain around my waist. I went to my PCP last year and he said I am too young for low T, exercise more. So I went to a Urologist that a friend recommended. My total T was 284 and free T was also low, but their scale was 175ng/dl - 780 for total T, so they said "you're low but normal, goodbye". I contacted a clinic in Florida and tested again, this time at 399 total and a low but "in range" free T. The doctor recommended a Clomid restart. I did 50mg/day for 4 weeks, and my total T shot up to 1195, with free T at 33 ng/dl. My estradiol also went up into the 50's. They tapered me off VERY slowly, going to 50mg on weekdays and skipping weekends. My total went even higher to 1258, but E2 was in the 60's and I got 2 itchy nipples and a lump under my left one. The Dr. barely upped the adex to 1mg a week, which was not enough to reduce the itching and lump. This whole time my libido was raging, making gains in the gym, feeling great other than being kinda emotional and itchy. So I went on my own and tapered quickly off the Clomid and ran mucho adex. In April, total T was 828 and I was still feeling good. Fast forward to September, my total T was 446, free was 10.6 ng/dl, and my libido is gone, exhausted after training (so much that I cannot even lift weights). The depression is returning but I am working on that with a therapist and mediation. I found a new doc on my insurance, but she wants to either try Clomid again or try hCG monotherapy. My question though is if I came back down to the 400's after being off Clomid for a few months, why would hCG be any better? Am I just wasting time boosting my natural production, only to have it fall again? What are your thoughts?

  2. #2
    Administrator Justin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,187
    SERMS and AI's will both increase natural testosterone production, both increase LH and FSH output, which is what causes the testicles to produce testosterone, so no surprise that your levels went up when using Clomid or large amounts of Anastrozole.

    When it comes to HPTA restarts, resets or whatever you'd like to call it, the only way we can call them successful is if the testosterone levels hold after treatment is discontinued. Restarts typically have their highest chance of success when an individual is in his 20's, especially lower to mid-20's. This doesn't mean they have no chance in your 30's or over but the odds do decrease as we get older.

    The statement made by the one physician that you are too young to have low testosterone, there's really not a nice way to put this, that's simply idiotic. That is like saying you are too young to have any existing condition or ailment despite having the condition or ailment. Peoples eyesight typically worsen as they age - would we then say there are no children that ever need glasses or contacts? Diabetes is perhaps more common in adults - would we then say adolescent diabetes is impossible? Of course not, that would be irrational. But somehow some physicians have taken irrational thinking and made it rational in their own minds as it pertains to testosterone.

    Your current situation - a combination of HCG and Clomid might produce a better result compared to last time in regards to it holding. HCG is typically needed if a restart is to be successful. Is it a waste of time? That's hard to say - you can always attempt it and see, but in the end you may end up needing testosterone treatment regardless, time will tell. It's really impossible to predict. Personally I would opt to go ahead and fix the problem once and for all but some like to explore all other options first. This is often due to a partial fear of actual testosterone use or a misunderstanding, so they wait.

    Lastly, the estrogen issue - any time testosterone levels go up, regardless of what's driving them upwards, estrogen levels will typically rise. All men make and need estrogen. This increase is caused by testosterone converting to estrogen, again a necessary and essential hormone to men despite popular culture misunderstandings. In fact, you can not live a healthy life or have a functioning libido without adequate estrogen, it would be impossible. However, another common myth is that elevated levels of estrogen make us more emotional, often people jokingly say more emotional like women - however, it simply doesn't work this way. Could higher E2 levels cause this? Perhaps of there was a massive imbalance between testosterone and estradiol and estradiol was through the roof, high 3 digit numbers.

    Side note - medications that are used to treat depression and anxiety often lower natural testosterone production. It's a strange situation - testosterone levels are low, depression sets in, antidepressants are prescribed, testosterone levels go lower, more antidepressants are needed....on and on the circle goes. Just something to keep in mind.

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin View Post
    SERMS and AI's will both increase natural testosterone production, both increase LH and FSH output, which is what causes the testicles to produce testosterone, so no surprise that your levels went up when using Clomid or large amounts of Anastrozole.

    When it comes to HPTA restarts, resets or whatever you'd like to call it, the only way we can call them successful is if the testosterone levels hold after treatment is discontinued. Restarts typically have their highest chance of success when an individual is in his 20's, especially lower to mid-20's. This doesn't mean they have no chance in your 30's or over but the odds do decrease as we get older.

    The statement made by the one physician that you are too young to have low testosterone, there's really not a nice way to put this, that's simply idiotic. That is like saying you are too young to have any existing condition or ailment despite having the condition or ailment. Peoples eyesight typically worsen as they age - would we then say there are no children that ever need glasses or contacts? Diabetes is perhaps more common in adults - would we then say adolescent diabetes is impossible? Of course not, that would be irrational. But somehow some physicians have taken irrational thinking and made it rational in their own minds as it pertains to testosterone.

    Your current situation - a combination of HCG and Clomid might produce a better result compared to last time in regards to it holding. HCG is typically needed if a restart is to be successful. Is it a waste of time? That's hard to say - you can always attempt it and see, but in the end you may end up needing testosterone treatment regardless, time will tell. It's really impossible to predict. Personally I would opt to go ahead and fix the problem once and for all but some like to explore all other options first. This is often due to a partial fear of actual testosterone use or a misunderstanding, so they wait.

    Lastly, the estrogen issue - any time testosterone levels go up, regardless of what's driving them upwards, estrogen levels will typically rise. All men make and need estrogen. This increase is caused by testosterone converting to estrogen, again a necessary and essential hormone to men despite popular culture misunderstandings. In fact, you can not live a healthy life or have a functioning libido without adequate estrogen, it would be impossible. However, another common myth is that elevated levels of estrogen make us more emotional, often people jokingly say more emotional like women - however, it simply doesn't work this way. Could higher E2 levels cause this? Perhaps of there was a massive imbalance between testosterone and estradiol and estradiol was through the roof, high 3 digit numbers.

    Side note - medications that are used to treat depression and anxiety often lower natural testosterone production. It's a strange situation - testosterone levels are low, depression sets in, antidepressants are prescribed, testosterone levels go lower, more antidepressants are needed....on and on the circle goes. Just something to keep in mind.
    Great reply, thanks for the info. To be honest I am about sick of dicking around and going up and down, but I would rather try everything I can to not be on medication for the rest of my life. I'm not 100% opposed to it.

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    5
    So Justin, do you think it's worth it to give lowtestosterone.com a call? I'm doing the hCG my doctor recommended but so far I have not noticed any difference. I did 2000 IU Friday and 2000 IU Monday, so perhaps it's too early to tell. I figured with such a high dosage I would notice effects pretty quickly.

  5. #5
    Administrator Justin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,187
    Quote Originally Posted by 46and2 View Post
    So Justin, do you think it's worth it to give lowtestosterone.com a call? I'm doing the hCG my doctor recommended but so far I have not noticed any difference. I did 2000 IU Friday and 2000 IU Monday, so perhaps it's too early to tell. I figured with such a high dosage I would notice effects pretty quickly.
    As with anything TRT related it will take time. That said, HPTA restarts are hit or miss and the only way to know if it works is the time that passes after its done.
    What's the overall plan look like? How long does he plan on you using the HCG and how much how often?

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin View Post
    As with anything TRT related it will take time. That said, HPTA restarts are hit or miss and the only way to know if it works is the time that passes after its done.
    What's the overall plan look like? How long does he plan on you using the HCG and how much how often?
    2000IU E3D for a total of 10,000 IU. 3rd shot will be tomorrow morning.

  7. #7
    Administrator Justin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,187
    So basically about 3wks? I'll be very surprised if it holds.

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin View Post
    So basically about 3wks? I'll be very surprised if it holds.
    Yeah me too. The Clomid I ran for over 2 months and I peaked at 1258 total but 6 months later I was back in the 400's. I might as well quit screwing around!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •