New to this... Repost from introduction page..

Sorry, I posted this in the introduction page by accident so reposting here.

Greetings everyone,
I'm hoping to get a little insight on low T. Here's a brief synopsys of my issue:
I'm 36 and otherwise healthy. Over the last year I went from 160 pounds to 129 and still losing. I'm only 5'7" but was comfortable at 160. Anyway, with the rapid unexplained weight loss I am drained all the time meaning low energy. VA docs and private care have done every test looking for cancers, thyroid issues and everything and all they found was GERD. So primary care says let's check your testosterone. The test came back at 280. Which I'm guessing is low as doc said so too. This was three and a half weeks ago so I retested today and waiting for results. I will add due to needing foot surgery on Friday I have been on Vicodin 10/325 3x daily for last 8 months. I here that could also affect T. Doc recommended the gel, I worry it'll rub off on my 7 year old son who hangs all over me and also as a Freemason, I do a lot of guide work where I am in contact with candidates. I am wearing a tuxedo when I do that so I'm guessing it won't go through clothes. Any thoughts on the gel? How long does it take to absorb into skin so it's not harmful to others? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Brian

280 is pretty low. It is advised that you have both Free and Total testosterone levels checked, it sounds like you only have Total.
Total testosterone represents all the the testosterone in your body.
Free testosterone represents the testosterone your body is able to use and utilize, so it is the most important number.
However, with Total as low as yours, you're not going to have high Free since Free is merely a portion of Total. But it's still a good thing to know where you stand so you can gauge things along the way.

Yes, painkillers have a very strong and negative affect on testosterone levels.

Gels - have a 20% fail rate, meaning they will not work in 20% of men. Of those that they do work with, they also have a high rate of adaption, meaning many men find their dose of gel must necessarily increase over time. The issue isn't the effectiveness of the testosterone but the effectiveness of absorption. Creams and gels can work well for some men but they will never be as effective or as efficient as injectable testosterone. Unfortunately, while most doctors understand gels need to be administered daily, few understand that injectables must be administered weekly.

Transferring your gel to your son, there is a lot of conflicting data out there about how much or how significant this can be. Most warnings do advise not to have any sexual contact with a partner for 12hrs due to skin-to-skin contact. But again, how much even that affects things is unclear.

Thank you for the reply. I went this morning at around 9:45 to get the total, free and a few other things tested. I'm hoping this surgery allows me to stop the pain killers. The doc said he doesn't do the injections at his office or he'd just do that. I don't have and skin to skin contact so shouldn't be a problem. I also here that when I stop the treatment my T will plummet so it could build back up on its own. I just don't want to feel like this anymore and gain my weight back. I know you can't exactly give medical advise or diagnosis but could the low T account for my rapid weight loss? I picked up a 50lb box the other day and it was very difficult so I know I lost strength as well. From what I read most of my symptoms could be caused by this so I figured I'd ask you guys as you've all been through this. Thanks again for the reply and I look forward to learning more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Usafvet98

Thank you for the reply. I went this morning at around 9:45 to get the total, free and a few other things tested. I'm hoping this surgery allows me to stop the pain killers. The doc said he doesn't do the injections at his office or he'd just do that. I don't have and skin to skin contact so shouldn't be a problem. I also here that when I stop the treatment my T will plummet so it could build back up on its own. I just don't want to feel like this anymore and gain my weight back. I know you can't exactly give medical advise or diagnosis but could the low T account for my rapid weight loss? I picked up a 50lb box the other day and it was very difficult so I know I lost strength as well. From what I read most of my symptoms could be caused by this so I figured I'd ask you guys as you've all been through this. Thanks again for the reply and I look forward to learning more.

---

There's really no need for your doctor to have to do the injections in his office. Most men who use injectable testosterone do so on their own, meaning they simply inject themselves. Some physicians have a problem with this but it's no different than what a diabetic using insulin every day would do.

When you use testosterone this shuts down your natural testosterone production. When you use testosterone, this tells your body it doesn't have to make any since you are providing it from an outside source. This idea does bother a lot of people; however, if you have low testosterone you weren't producing enough natural testosterone to begin with. It's a simple two choice option: Option one, keep your limited natural testosterone production going, Option two, supplement with testosterone. Now once you stop taking testosterone, first and foremost if you truly have low testosterone you will always need to take testosterone in order not to have low levels. This isn't one of those things that's a few months in duration and then all of the sudden you produce enough natural testosterone on your own. What will happen if you stop is your body will begin producing natural testosterone again on its own but only to the point that it is now, and that's the best case scenario.

Yes, physical changes in strength, muscle mass and fat that exist despite no changes in diet, exercise or other lifestyle habits are common with low testosterone.

Ok so here is a capture of my latest result. So the T is up from three weeks ago so is it possible it was a fluke or does it fluctuate like that?
Attachment 14

Total test can fluctuate quite a bit. It's also important, very important to note that when the blood test is performed relative to your last injection will have a significant impact on your reading. All of that said, your Free Testosterone number is extremely low. It's so low that it would be impossible for you NOT to have low testosterone symptoms.

It's that low? It said low on the report which has to be bad considering the first report didn't say low for the 280. So which that low, T replacement therapy should be considered? My dad is on weekly injections he does himself and he's been better since. However he's 60, I feel like I am too young to have this issue so am a little bit in denial I think. But getting friendly advice from you guys will help as I can't see myself making the right decision. Lol sad I know. How are the other numbers? They don't say hi or low but you guys would know the range better.

The two numbers that stand out the most are the FSH and LH. Your pituitary is attempting to send out the signal to the testicles to produce testosterone but for some reason the signal isn't activating the testicles significantly to produce a large quantity. Your free testosterone being that low, while it only makes up a small percentage of the total, in all likelihood your SHBG is binding your testosterone. There isn't a lot you can do about this other than treatment.

That makes sense. Thank you. We'll see what doc says when he reads results. He'll call me when he reads them.

Ok so doc wrote a script for testosterone injection 1mil once every two weeks. I've heard about valleys where I'm going to feel horrible if I wait two weeks between injections. I believe the injections are 200mg per shot. I'm worried about feeling bad in between.. Is that something I should worry about or is that dosing normal to start out. He also wants me to do the first 1 or two injections in office to make sure I have no issues which I'm ok with.

One more question, I've always heard that bodybuilder a use this to get big. Now I know they use it in much larger doses but with this little amount, if I start working out again will I get bigger or more muscular like I used to be? I'd like to get that back and will work out anyway but curious if it still works like that in smaller doses..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Usafvet98

Ok so doc wrote a script for testosterone injection 1mil once every two weeks. I've heard about valleys where I'm going to feel horrible if I wait two weeks between injections. I believe the injections are 200mg per shot. I'm worried about feeling bad in between.. Is that something I should worry about or is that dosing normal to start out. He also wants me to do the first 1 or two injections in office to make sure I have no issues which I'm ok with.

One more question, I've always heard that bodybuilder a use this to get big. Now I know they use it in much larger doses but with this little amount, if I start working out again will I get bigger or more muscular like I used to be? I'd like to get that back and will work out anyway but curious if it still works like that in smaller doses..

---

One injection every 2wks will produce large peaks and valleys. Injectable testosterone cypionate or testosterone enanthate, the two most common forms of testosterone, need to be injected once every 7 days to prevent the peaks and valleys. You would be far better served injecting 100mg once per week rather than 200mg once every two weeks. All of that said, depending on how fast the individual metabolizes testosterone, he can sometimes benefit from splitting the dose up even more, say into twice weekly injections, such as 50mg/2x/wk.

As for muscle gains, yes bodybuilders use quite a bit of testosterone. Keep in mind, the idea behind TRT is to replace what you're missing where the idea behind bodybuilding use is to add far more than you could ever naturally produce. Gym rat doses typically fall in the 500-750mg/wk range where a bodybuilder will often use 1,000mg or more. Will you gain muscle mass with your TRT? Maybe, that depends on you. Again, the idea is to replace what was lost so if replaced, you eat and train well you should be able to get into good shape. How much so depends on you. Many men on TRT end up in better shape than they ever have in their life. The reason is it's very common for men to workout and eat better than they ever have because they know they're on testosterone - they probably could have been in just as good of shape years ago. But the optimized levels now give you the tools that you wouldn't have, after that it's simply up to you to maximize it.

I noticed the night of the first injection I fell asleep with my son and woke up two hours later with both shoulder joints hurting really bad and they felt very heavy. I didn't sleep on them because I woke up in exact position. Could that be related? Also, I told the doc id prefer to do it every week as I'm afraid of getting to that low point so I go back this Monday to get the second one. I'm afraid of two things, not being able to have more children as I only have the one and testicular shrinking. If I maintain a normal dosage that keeps my levels as close to level as possible would I still have to worry about these things? All that said, the pros definitely outweigh the cons. I know it takes about 6 weeks to get full effects but about two days after injection I swear I'm thinking more clearly, I'm more motivated and remembering things I have been meaning to get done but forgot about. I don't know if it's just in my head or it's really working. Either way, I'll take it. I'm guessing it's because the 1 mil injection boosted my levels to a normal range quickly for those first few days. As far as the working out thing, I knew bodybuilders inject a lot more but didn't know it was that much more. That's crazy. I'd be happy to just gain some of my weight back and if I get a little muscle with it, great.

Testosterone should not be causing your shoulders or joints to hurt. You may at times have some soreness in the injected area, but that should be it. If it's bad and persist, you might consider changing esters. Some men find certain esters to be more comfortable, I'm referring to either the Cypionate or Enanthate ester. In both the testosterone itself is the same, it's the carrier agent that differs. Same effects with both, in fact they're virtually identical but again, some find one more comfortable than the other.

The effects of TRT - on average it takes about 12wks for most men to really start noticing the benefits of TRT. It takes up to a full year to reap the full benefits of TRT. Now this is assuming you're dialed in, meaning you've found the right protocol that works for you. After the year, from that stage it's simply about maintaining the benefits. I see a lot of men reach this point and they come off their TRT thinking they don't need it anymore. I understand why they feel this way, if you feel great it's natural to think "I don't need this." But when you stop you simply go back to having low testosterone again and you end up starting the whole process over again. I see a lot of men get stuck in this never ending loop.

Testosterone can reduce the chances in having kids but it is by no means an efficient birth control, if it were, you wouldn't see every meat head out there with a kid or two. However, it can reduce potency. If having kids is still a concern, you need to strongly consider HCG along with your testosterone as it will help protect fertility. It will also help with testicular atrophy. Your testosterone levels do not have anything to do with any of this - the mere fact that you are taking testosterone will lead to testicular atrophy. The atrophy itself isn't physically harmful, but many guys don't like it, which is understandable. Once again, HCG, this will prevent it. I may have already said this, I can't remember - I've done my TRT both ways, with and without HCG and the difference with HCG is tremendous. In my opinion, the biggest advantage is in how it helps keep your levels stable in-between testosterone injections.

Does this mean I'm at a higher risk for cancer?

Yes, you will have peaks and valleys with this dosing.

Yes, bodybuilders do use testosterone to grow, but normally at very large doses. Sure, you can definitely get in better shape simply by improving testosterone, assuming you're eating and working out properly. The idea is to simply get your testosterone levels back to normal, from there it's up to you.